Hope in hard places E2 - Sally from Iraq
In this episode, Embrace’s Revd Su McClellan speaks with Sally Boya from Ankawa in northern Iraq. Sally’s background is in education and she currently works as a foreign policy researcher at Kurdistan Region Presidency.
Above: Sally Boya
In this conversation, Sally shares a harrowing account of the ISIS invasion of Iraq in 2014. Despite being out of the country on her honeymoon at the time, she explains why she didn’t hesitate to go back home - and what gave her the courage to do so.
Sally also speaks about living out her faith, why faith and hope go together, and what it means to live her life in the presence of God.
Listen to the episode:
Interview transcript:
Su: Hello, my name is the Reverend Su McClellan from Embrace the Middle East, and I am absolutely delighted to be joined today by Sally Boya, who is in northern Iraq. Sally, welcome to our podcast. Sally, Iraq has been through so much in recent history. The violence that was perpetrated by Daesh or so-called Islamic State in 2014 on minorities in northern Iraq was almost completely incomprehensible. Could you tell us about the impact on your community, the Christian community in particular, at that time and its legacy today?
Sally: Thank you, Su, for this opportunity. Looking back and talking about 2014, I remember this very well and will never forget it. Because it was that time when I was preparing for my wedding. And I got married by the end of July. So, and it started actually looking at the news of the ISIS attack. We could hear it. We could feel it. And my husband and I were on our honeymoon when we heard that Daesh, ISIS, attacked the Mosul planes, Nineveh planes. And we could hear and see the displacement of all the Christians to the north of Iraq, to Erbil, Kurdistan. And actually, later on, a few days later, we were able to hear that ISIS were not that far from Kurdistan, too, from Erbil. It was heartbreaking to see actually in news that people are being killed in their cities on streets. So many friends, actually international friends who helped me and my husband to get our visa and to go on our honeymoon in Europe, they asked me to stay in Europe. And to ask for immigration and not to come back. Because the situation was that bad. And of course, we were shocked, you know, as being a bride and groom on our honeymoon, we did not want to be in that situation. But actually we didn't think about it. We have to do something to stop this. Maybe we could do something. We can make a change. So we didn't even think about remaining there and asking for immigration. We said, yeah, we will go back and join and stay with our families and friends. And this is what happened. We came back and It was completely different seeing this, being part of feeling that we are in a war. We didn't even think about it. We just went to the field actually. We went to church and we went to schools and tried to help our brothers and sisters who came from Baghdad and from Mosul. To Kurdistan, to help them. So... looking at those ten years from 2014 until now, we're still living that. I mean, seeing all these people, we actually, we talk to people and we know people who… And they are still part of our life now because some people could not even go back to Nineveh. Some people stayed here, some left the country. So yeah, looking at the Yazidi stories also, that so many people and families and kids have been kidnapped and they can still not find them.
Su: Goodness me, that is an incredible testimony to your, to your bravery, actually, I think I'd use that word, an absolutely incredible testimony to that. What gave you the strength? I mean, I know you said you didn't even think about it. You just know we have to go home. But what gave you the strength to actually be able to do that?
Sally: Yeah, well, I remember when my husband told me because looking at the news seeing that these people are killing anyone and everyone in the streets. And, you know, you would hear so many things. Rumours were spreading that these people are attacking houses, kidnapping women and children. So my husband told me, what would happen if I take you back and something like that happens to you? I told him, let us not think about it that way. I don't know. From being a child until now, I am a believer. I believe in God and my faith strengthens me. So, so there was a hope actually inside of me. That things might be all right, but just, I want to be there. Just like my parents, my sisters, my brother, my friends, the whole community, the people that I know. So I told him imagine what would happen if we stay here and if we survive and how could we live with that if the rest would not survive? So our life would be actually meaningless. I don't want to do that. Let us go back because it's our land there. So just let us go back and see what will happen. So I had faith, I had hope that things can be better and God won't leave us.
Su: It's incredible to hear you say that and I'm in awe really of your faith. And that deep-rooted hope that you carry within you because it has been truly and severely tested. You really have been through the refiner's fire, which is just extraordinary to listen to. Can you tell us about the Christian community that you belong to? You know, what daily life is like for you, but also that sense of rootedness that you have in that part of the Middle East?
Sally: Yeah, well, as Christians, Christian Catholics in Ankawa, we have a strong church that works with the kids, youth, and families. And because my parents are believers, so I got this from them from my childhood. So I have this sense of belongingness to the church, and not just being part of the church, but also the feel, the spiritual feeling that I have, the presence of God. The presence of Jesus. It's not just going to the church, but actually living a life that Jesus is centred of, and I have many stories that I couldn't do it without Jesus and I couldn't have done it without the guidance and protection of God. So yes, and talking about our community, maybe people all around the world would hear, okay, Iraq is a war zone. I remember when I went in 2013 to America, the Christian community there asked me of whether we have electricity, whether we have TV, because the idea they got about Iraq is that it's a war zone and it's full of terrorists. But there are good people. We have very good potential. So yes, Christians here in Iraq, they are successful people. And we are part of leading and changing the country to a good position.
Su: I think our listeners would be really interested to know, Sally, you said you've got examples of where you know Jesus has been with you and has made a real difference in what you are able to do. Do you have a story that you would be willing to share that is an example of that? Because I think that would be a huge encouragement.
Sally: Yeah, well, continuing the story of ISIS and coming back to Iraq, it was during the COVID pandemic, actually. As a school principal having around 700 students, 50 teachers, and dealing with parents, It wasn't that easy, and especially that I was leading the school in a young age. So during that time, during the COVID pandemic, God blessed me with a child. I gave birth to a lovely daughter. At the same time, I got the opportunity of doing my master's degree. So during that time, working from home, leading the school and teaching, being in the COVID pandemic, I have a baby child who I have to take care of. Plus doing my master's degree full time. Online, from home, it wasn't that easy. I mean, doing three full-time jobs and I felt that distress. I mean, I cannot leave my child, my baby, and I got my master's degree also. I cannot leave it. Plus, I have 700 students that I cannot also leave. So, but God was there. I mean, looking at all those things and I actually, I prayed deeply. I asked God for answers. So yes, I tried. And kept trying, praying, and asking God for answers and for guidance, not just for answers. And I believe in another thing, which was that God talking to us, whether through people, whether it's through prayer. So, yeah, while going to church, while praying, God answered me. Once I remember that was through a bishop's preaching, I received an answer to my question. I don't know. I still don't know how did that happen. Why the Bible reading that day was the answer to my question that day. But I received an answer. Another answer was when I received a message from a priest friend who lives in a different country, I asked him for guidance. And on the same day that I wanted to make a decision, he sent me a message that I did not expect from him to send me a message on that day. And I told him, how did you know? He said, I just, I was thinking and praying for you. And I said, let me text Sally and tell her this prayer. And the answer was in that prayer. Why and how? I don't know, but God did it. And looking back to many challenges and difficulties that we face daily with people, whether it's women competing women, whether it's in work or in personal life. I mean, yes, I have been through many stories and many difficulties and many challenges. And I prayed, I asked God for guidance, and God answered.
Su: I'm just thinking and just reflecting a little bit as you've been talking on that wonderful story in 1 Samuel where Hannah, who is desperate to have a baby and she goes to the temple and she pleads with God to hear her. And of course, God does. And I think it's, again, a really powerful testimony that you've shared there that when we cry out to God, God will answer us. I'm just interested as well about some of the traditions that you as the Christian community in the Kurdistan region would have. And of course, you know, you have the Nineveh Plain that is part of your country and part of your heritage. And I believe you have a time between Epiphany and Lent where you focus on the story of Jonah and that's a fasting time for you. Is that right? Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Sally: Yeah, actually, it's called Ba'utha. Ba'utha is a mini liturgical season that comes in the middle of season of epiphany. It's three days of fasting and prayer. And it goes back to the testimony story of prophet Jonah. We call it in our language, Dinha. Epiphany means Dinha. So Ba'utha is a story from the 7th century in Nineveh Plain. So the story says that God would wipe out the whole place. But because of Jonah's preaching to people, and because of people's fasting, God saved people. So as a memorial to that the people in Iraq are still doing this, we fast for three days and we pray. And today actually is the last day of fasting and people go to church and pray and they fast and we're happy about it.
Su: That's really, really interesting. One of the things that I love about some of the conversations that we have with our friends around the Middle East region is finding out all the different traditions that are present in each of the countries. And it's always really, really interesting to hear that. So thank you for sharing that. Can you tell us a little bit about how you will be celebrating Easter?
Sally: Yeah, well, actually it's a wonderful season. So we usually celebrate Easter by having so many activities in the church. We start with fasting and it's all about family gathering. We go to church every Friday and also we plan for a nice pilgrimage on Palm Sunday. Where people walk from a church to another and having all the children and the kids of schools and the catechism and the youth group of the church all saying the Easter songs and hymns. So it's a wonderful season that all the families and children and kids would colour eggs and prepare Easter trees. So, yes.
Su: A very, very special time of year. You spoke of the fact that your hope comes from your faith. So as we just draw this conversation to a close, I'd just be really interested to know what is your hope for Iraq?
Sally: Well, my hope for Iraq is that there is a light at the end. There is hope. And for me, hope and faith go along together. So if we believe it will happen, we just need to do our part as people, as Iraqis. So a hope to me means me, you and all the people around us who is working for good and to make, to strengthen the kingdom of God. So, yeah, we just need to turn our focus to God. Pray and do our job. And since we know that what we're doing is the right thing, then God will bless it. And if God is with us, who's against us? So I dream and I hope for a beautiful Iraq because the people of Iraq deserve good and they have suffered a lot. And people in Iraq are good people. They work very hard and they are very peaceful.
Su: That's such an amazing Easter message that out of death and destruction can come resurrection and hope. Sally, thank you so very, very much for joining us today. We will, of course, continue to hold you in our prayers. And we just wish you all of God's blessings on everything that you continue to do. Thank you very much for your time.
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Explore Christianity in Iraq
Find out more about the history of Christianity in Iraq - as well as the challenges that many Iraqi Christians face today and the impact they have on society.